Hey, thanks in advance to all who help...
Last Thursday I was driving my car as per usual to work and the fan and engine light came on. After some Googling this suggested a faulty alternator. So I stripped it down, cleaned it up put in some new brushes and regulator. I fired it up this Wednesday and started straight up with no lights.
I left the car until yesterday and went to start it up and it just turns over, not even attempting to fire.
I've got strong spark on all 4 plugs. I've got fuel, I can smell and see it on the plugs. I've checked all fuses and all OK.
So I figured it must be timing (although this is weird as I haven't touched it!). So I reset to base timing (10 degrees) with the pins shorted and it still just cranks, no attempt at firing.
Here's a video of it cranking if it helps:
http://youtu.be/kJ62aUOQNs4
I'm not sure what to try next - any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Matt
Car won't start
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chefey
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Check and see what your battery voltage is, you may have a parasitic drain on battery.If it was running ok before lights and alt fault came on I would think the trouble is in the same area. To make sure it is not a bad engine earth, put a jump lead from engine to somewhere clean on chassis/bodywork and see how it turns over. Try that and report back. 
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peteV6R5
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Re: Car won't start
+1chefey wrote:Check and see what your battery voltage is, you may have a parasitic drain on battery.If it was running ok before lights and alt fault came on I would think the trouble is in the same area. To make sure it is not a bad engine earth, put a jump lead from engine to somewhere clean on chassis/bodywork and see how it turns over. Try that and report back.
Highland Drive 13/14/15/17/18/19
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matt888
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
My first though was the alternator too, as it had been the only thing that had changed. Although after rebuilding it on wed I took the car for a 4/5 mile spin and it was running well.
So I tried as suggested and still no joy.
I first jumpered between the block and chassis and tried, then jumpered between the block and negative. No go. Disconnected the alternator completely and tried again with both, exactly the same, cranking but no attempt at firing.
I've also tried a different battery from a working car.
I'm thinking it's not a grounding issue as I'm getting spark, fuel and it's cranking which suggests they are getting power? What to try next?!
Thanks again for your help,
Matt
So I tried as suggested and still no joy.
I first jumpered between the block and chassis and tried, then jumpered between the block and negative. No go. Disconnected the alternator completely and tried again with both, exactly the same, cranking but no attempt at firing.
I've also tried a different battery from a working car.
I'm thinking it's not a grounding issue as I'm getting spark, fuel and it's cranking which suggests they are getting power? What to try next?!
Thanks again for your help,
Matt
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chefey
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Right, so it`s cranking at a good speed, Are plugs wetting as in flooding? what colour spark have you, yellow or blue? Could timing belt have jumped, have you checked for error codes? What model is you car?
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matt888
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Yes, the plugs are quite wet... I took them all out tonight and cleaned them up (they were new about 1000 miles ago). I then cranked with the immobiliser on (as it cuts the fuel pump) for about 6 secs. Then tried starting and same. I did get a loud pop, I guess it was just igniting the left over fuel in the exhaust.
I've hand tested the tension on the cambelt and it seems good. I guess it could have slipped, but I'd still expect it to at least fire occasionally.
No error codes reported, it's a MK1b. Spark is orangy but does look strong. Here's a vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Gj9KbDyHE
I've hand tested the tension on the cambelt and it seems good. I guess it could have slipped, but I'd still expect it to at least fire occasionally.
No error codes reported, it's a MK1b. Spark is orangy but does look strong. Here's a vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-Gj9KbDyHE
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chefey
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Ideally spark should be blue.
Jimi is the MK 1 expert, I am surprised he has not picked up on this.
If you have cam cover off I would check to see if timing has slipped, but I would think the yellow spark maybe your problem.
Have you checked inside distributor cap.
Not sure if igniter/coil pack is similar to Mk 2 , but check and see if there are any cracks in casing.
Jimi is the MK 1 expert, I am surprised he has not picked up on this.
If you have cam cover off I would check to see if timing has slipped, but I would think the yellow spark maybe your problem.
Have you checked inside distributor cap.
Not sure if igniter/coil pack is similar to Mk 2 , but check and see if there are any cracks in casing.
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matt888
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Ok so I rechecked the spark, it is blue, it just doesn't look it in the vid.
I pulled the dizzy and checked inside and it's all nice and clean, no oil leaks (I also rebuilt this about 1000 miles ago).
I took off the cambelt cover and set it to TCD using the marking on the timing gear pulley - just to make doubly sure of my timing (I remember this taking a few attempts when I was switching from Megasquirt back to stock ignition a while ago).
It's still just cranking - no firing! Any input appreciated...
I pulled the dizzy and checked inside and it's all nice and clean, no oil leaks (I also rebuilt this about 1000 miles ago).
I took off the cambelt cover and set it to TCD using the marking on the timing gear pulley - just to make doubly sure of my timing (I remember this taking a few attempts when I was switching from Megasquirt back to stock ignition a while ago).
It's still just cranking - no firing! Any input appreciated...
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chefey
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
So timing ok, spark ok, what about fuel pressure, although you said plugs were wetting I believe. 
I may have my silly head on, you said So I reset to base timing (10 degrees) with the pins shorted and it still just cranks, no attempt at firing.
how did you set timing if it was not idling?
I may have my silly head on, you said So I reset to base timing (10 degrees) with the pins shorted and it still just cranks, no attempt at firing.
how did you set timing if it was not idling?
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matt888
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Yes sorry, that was a bit of a misleading statement.
What I meant was - I set it to TDC, on the crank and the dizzy. Whilst cranking I put the timing light on it and made sure it was at TDC. I then shorted the pins and made sure it was advancing to 10 degrees by using the same method.
I figured this would also check a couple of other things, including the TPS (as I believe it won't advance correctly without this reading?) and obviously the ECU advance.
I guess it could be fuel pressure (I'm not ruling anything out!). I'm not convinced though as after cranking there's quite a strong smell of fuel and the wet plugs. Is there an easy way to test?
I will check my cambelt tonight to check for slippage, as I didn't get a chance yesterday.
Thanks again for you help, much appreciated.
What I meant was - I set it to TDC, on the crank and the dizzy. Whilst cranking I put the timing light on it and made sure it was at TDC. I then shorted the pins and made sure it was advancing to 10 degrees by using the same method.
I figured this would also check a couple of other things, including the TPS (as I believe it won't advance correctly without this reading?) and obviously the ECU advance.
I guess it could be fuel pressure (I'm not ruling anything out!). I'm not convinced though as after cranking there's quite a strong smell of fuel and the wet plugs. Is there an easy way to test?
I will check my cambelt tonight to check for slippage, as I didn't get a chance yesterday.
Thanks again for you help, much appreciated.
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chefey
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
I have not tested for fuel pressure myself, PeteV6R5 has given advice before on this before, jimi must be on holiday, he is the Mk 1 man. I will PM Pete and get him to pick up on this.
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peteV6R5
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Re: Car won't start
hi, you need around 30psi to get a good fuel mix.
its actually 2-3 bar on a MK2 - dont know what it is on a mk1.
If you dont have that type of pressure then it will not start - my fuel pump went fubar and thats exactly what it was.
The way we found it was to block off the return pipe and it started (ie increased fuel rail pressure enough to give a spray rather than a dribble).
When I looked back I also got missfire and not catching sometimes on the run up to the failure.
I just dont see how the alt failing would cause this issue - maybe they are not related but occurred in the same time frame.
Worth checking the fuel rail pressure even if just to eliminate it.
its actually 2-3 bar on a MK2 - dont know what it is on a mk1.
If you dont have that type of pressure then it will not start - my fuel pump went fubar and thats exactly what it was.
The way we found it was to block off the return pipe and it started (ie increased fuel rail pressure enough to give a spray rather than a dribble).
When I looked back I also got missfire and not catching sometimes on the run up to the failure.
I just dont see how the alt failing would cause this issue - maybe they are not related but occurred in the same time frame.
Worth checking the fuel rail pressure even if just to eliminate it.
Highland Drive 13/14/15/17/18/19
JAE 07/09/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17
Japfest 09/11/12/13/16/19
Wales runs 14/15/16/17/18
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matt888
Topic author
Re: Car won't start
Hey, thanks Pete.
I've had the fuel pump die on me before (after the car had sat for a couple of years), but it just completely stopped which was easy to identify. I replaced it with a second hand one, so again it could possibly be that (hopefully not though as it's an awful job to replace).
I've not had any symptoms though, no stuttering or power loss. I'll take the injector rail off tonight and make sure I'm getting a good spray. I don't have anything to measure the rail pressure, but I'll dig through and try and find the return line to give that a go.
I've had the fuel pump die on me before (after the car had sat for a couple of years), but it just completely stopped which was easy to identify. I replaced it with a second hand one, so again it could possibly be that (hopefully not though as it's an awful job to replace).
I've not had any symptoms though, no stuttering or power loss. I'll take the injector rail off tonight and make sure I'm getting a good spray. I don't have anything to measure the rail pressure, but I'll dig through and try and find the return line to give that a go.
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suchafunkymonkey
Topic author
