Catalytic convertors

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SW20201
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Catalytic convertors

Post by SW20201 »

Hi guys,

I appreciate this has been discussed before but looking for some up to date information. My 1998 MR2 has failed its MOT due to not passing the emissions test. The local (trusted) garage says it needs a catalytic convertor, which they cannot supply, and new spark plugs to get it through the test. They reckon it will cost £700 for the CC and are unable to source one as Toyota no longer make them for my model and they can't find one at any of their suppliers!

How hard are these to get hold of? Is it as simple as going on ebay and buying one and hoping the part is genuine?!

Thanks for the help!

PJ


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SonicSW20
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by SonicSW20 »

Assuming UK market naturally aspirated model, this should fit: https://www.cats2u.co.uk/toyota/8767-to ... 91408.html

I've no idea what the quality is like though at that price.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by MR2DI4 »

Took my CAT out years ago and threw it in the bin.

We don't have emissions testing over here at the WOF (MOT) testing stations but took it to a place where they do testing and it got a green sticker pass anyway.

Your testing must be a bit brutal or the car needs a tune or the engine is plain worn out. Unless the car is visibly smoking over here it gets a pass at the WOF.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by Voivod »

MR2DI4 wrote: 22/06/21 22:14 Took my CAT out years ago and threw it in the bin.
Your testing must be a bit brutal or the car needs a tune or the engine is plain worn out. Unless the car is visibly smoking over here it gets a pass at the WOF.
Not necessarily :D I think USA will be much worse especially California or some states that wouldn't allow you to put aftermarket light bulb.Also reading from other forums like Australia when if you fit aftermarket suspension or some alteration to the car the you've to go and check the car for approval :annoyed:

In UK is not so bad..just the cars after cat exempt are more stricter emissions demands. He just need to find a friendly MOT garage :laughing
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by SonicSW20 »

MR2DI4 wrote: 22/06/21 22:14 Took my CAT out years ago and threw it in the bin.

We don't have emissions testing over here at the WOF (MOT) testing stations but took it to a place where they do testing and it got a green sticker pass anyway.

Your testing must be a bit brutal or the car needs a tune or the engine is plain worn out. Unless the car is visibly smoking over here it gets a pass at the WOF.
Not sure how this helps someone in the UK where the rules are totally different. Making the assumption that it is a 1998 UK market car with its original engine, then to pass an MOT legitimately it must have a catalytic converter where one is fitted as standard regardless of if it passes the emissions test or not.

The test values for the emissions test can be found here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... dition.pdf

0.5% CO at idle, 0.3% CO and 200ppm HC between 2400 and 2600RPM, lambda as measured at the tailpipe between 0.97 and 1.03 between those RPM's too.

Highly unlikely to pass that without a cat anyway.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by nick »

Agree with Sonic , easy to fit. Make sure it is the right way round!

Interestingly my Mk3 is marginal only just passing emissions with the cat.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by SonicSW20 »

@OP do you have the emissions test sheet you can post a picture of?
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by MR2DI4 »

We are far stricter on vehicle modifications after 12 year olds started lowering their cars by simply cutting the springs on the shocks shorter with an angle grinder.

They even had to start getting tougher on people running under width tyres for the "Look" and I still see the odd car running stupid amounts of negative camber in the rear. I suspect we have loads of cars on the road without a WOF full stop and you don't need any insurance either.

You can only go plus 1 inch over stock even on the wheels. Any changes in the shocks at all would require a cert. They even started looking at my turbo and I assured them it was stock but probably shouldn't have opened my mouth that it was a hybrid inside that I built myself but they probably didn't believe me anyway.

They don't want you to start playing with the car, many changes require certification.

Absolutely no emissions testing however, we don't give a s**t about that.

WOF time is always fun on what they consider is important and what is not. They will pull you up on a blown parking light bulb but when the gearstick in my Subaru was flopping about all over the place because the shifter linkage bushes were totally shot, thats not a problem !!!
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by Voivod »

SonicSW20 wrote: 23/06/21 9:54
0.5% CO at idle, 0.3% CO and 200ppm HC between 2400 and 2600RPM, lambda as measured at the tailpipe between 0.97 and 1.03 between those RPM's too.

Highly unlikely to pass that without a cat anyway.
Rev3 from 1993 onwards turbo or not Will not pass emission in any way without fully functioned cat!
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by SonicSW20 »

Voivod wrote: 23/06/21 22:26 Rev3 from 1993 onwards turbo or not Will not pass emission in any way without fully functioned cat!
Not true.


A Japanese market MR2 Turbo will pass an MOT without a catalytic converter if its first use date (date it was first registered in Japan, not the UK) is before 1st August 1995. Before this date, the correct emissions test is a non cat test, which has a limit of 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC's. If you fail that then there is something seriously wrong with the car.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by MR2DI4 »

SonicSW20 wrote: 23/06/21 23:31
Voivod wrote: 23/06/21 22:26 Rev3 from 1993 onwards turbo or not Will not pass emission in any way without fully functioned cat!
Not true.


A Japanese market MR2 Turbo will pass an MOT without a catalytic converter if its first use date (date it was first registered in Japan, not the UK) is before 1st August 1995. Before this date, the correct emissions test is a non cat test, which has a limit of 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC's. If you fail that then there is something seriously wrong with the car.
Well hopefully we will follow the same rules if emissions testing ever comes to pass over here which could happen with increasing pressure internationally. Cannot really retrospectively introduce unrealistic low emissions levels to a car that never had to comply with such levels when it was made. Its now a Fossil Fueled classic or will be in a few more years time if its not already. Starting to see some WOW asking prices for them over here now like NZD$25,000 but its still a bit early.
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Re: Catalytic convertors

Post by SonicSW20 »

MR2DI4 wrote: 24/06/21 0:43
SonicSW20 wrote: 23/06/21 23:31
Voivod wrote: 23/06/21 22:26 Rev3 from 1993 onwards turbo or not Will not pass emission in any way without fully functioned cat!
Not true.


A Japanese market MR2 Turbo will pass an MOT without a catalytic converter if its first use date (date it was first registered in Japan, not the UK) is before 1st August 1995. Before this date, the correct emissions test is a non cat test, which has a limit of 3.5% CO and 1200ppm HC's. If you fail that then there is something seriously wrong with the car.
Well hopefully we will follow the same rules if emissions testing ever comes to pass over here which could happen with increasing pressure internationally. Cannot really retrospectively introduce unrealistic low emissions levels to a car that never had to comply with such levels when it was made. Its now a Fossil Fueled classic or will be in a few more years time if its not already. Starting to see some WOW asking prices for them over here now like NZD$25,000 but its still a bit early.
I think that'll be unlikely, the reason it works like this is essentially a loophole in the MOT regulations. A Celica GT4 with effectively the same engine would need a cat.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspect ... tion-8-2-1

Image

Chart 2 is what we're interested in. This is the flow chart for determining what test is correct for a vehicle. If you do not have a cat then you will almost certainly fail the BET, so we continue with the chart.

In this example the car was first used before 1st August 1995, so we continue down.

The In service emissions book is a list of pretty much every vehicle sold in the UK and its vehicle specific emissions limits. You can view it here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... dition.pdf

The key thing here is the chart asks for an exact match - in practice this means matching the VIN *and* the engine code. As there is no UK market MR2 Turbo, there is no 3SGTE option listed under MR2 therefore we do not have an exact match, and the vehicle gets a non cat test.

And before anyone comes along and says "what about 8.2.1.1", read it carefully and in full:

Image

This inspection is only for vehicles that must have a full catalyst emissions test (disregarding the basic emissions test).

As we ascertained from the flow chart, our example MR2 Turbo does not require a full cat test, therefore this part of the test does not apply.

Anyway, going off piste a bit here, none of this is relevant to OP unless they have a 1998 MR2 with a pre 1st August 1995 3SGTE conversion.
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