How does SORN work

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Padraig 04
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How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

Hi,
Since recently I've 100% committed to actually starting work on my MR2 it has only dawned on me that my car inst even in my name. The story goes that I bought this car from a scrapyard and when I bought it I was given the full V5c logbook. I'm in Ireland (Its from northern Ireland and technically is a UK car) and I could put it in my dads name and address since he works over there. The car was never sorned so does that mean that I will have to pay the 6 years of tax due or do I just sorn it when I register it in my or my dads name?

To summarise

When I bought my car I was given the full V5C
The person I bought it off inst the person on the V5C. The owner on the V5 bought the car in 2010.
It was never sorn and hasnt been taxed since 2016

Thanks in advance hopefully someone knows what I should do :facepalm:


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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Synz »

What does it show as on the https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax website?

If it's not on the site and you got it from a scrap yard it could be down on their system as 'scrapped'. Even with a V5C it doesn't mean much if its old. I know that if you don't tax a car you get a £80 fine, if this isn't paid within 28 days it can be increased to £1000 and possibly more / taken too court.

I've never dealt with the DVLA on something like this so not sure how by the book they are but I would imagine very so be careful :shocked:

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Padraig 04
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

Well last time I checked it did come up but the tax and MOT both expired in 2016. I checked another site for tax then and it gave me a different date when it expired. I'll get the reg when I get home if anyone wants it.

I have been looking on the DVLA website but nothing of use I don't think.

I have noticed however that the taxation class on the V5 says 'disabled' so would that mean it wouldnt be fined if it was overdue?
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by jeff »

Padraig 04 wrote: 03/02/22 10:58


I have noticed however that the taxation class on the V5 says 'disabled' so would that mean it wouldnt be fined if it was overdue?
no it doesnt, disabled road tax is same, either you need to tax it as normal or sorn
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by TonyleFrog »

Padraig 04 wrote: 03/02/22 10:58 Well last time I checked it did come up but the tax and MOT both expired in 2016. I checked another site for tax then and it gave me a different date when it expired. I'll get the reg when I get home if anyone wants it.

I have been looking on the DVLA website but nothing of use I don't think.

I have noticed however that the taxation class on the V5 says 'disabled' so would that mean it wouldnt be fined if it was overdue?
What do you mean checked another site? The only one that counts is the DVLA one that Synz linked to.

As far as past liability is concerned, when a car changes hands (i.e. new Registered Keeper), any unused paid for tax is refunded (complete months only) to the RK on the V5C. The new owner is responsible for taxing it or declaring SORN immediately. If it was never SORNed, then the person currently registered as the RK is on the hook for any outstanding VED.

Also, the taxation class will have to be changed back from Disabled (assuming you don't qualify).
This can only be done at a Post Office once you have a new V5C in your name.
https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-tax-c ... -is-exempt

Registering a car to an address you do not normally live at can cause problems with some insurers. It will also mean all official communications (e.g. tax reminders/parking tickets/speed camera prosecutions) will go there. You had better hope that your dad doesn't sit on any paperwork. I wouldn't recommend it tbh. It causes more hassle than its worth.

One more thing. Is this car the one you acquired in January 2020? What, if anything, may the scrapper have told Swansea when you bought it?

The car now being in the RoI is going to complicate matters even further. I hope you have a stock of headache pills as I suspect a can of worms may be about to open...
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

(reg is L895 THC)
Sorry I'm terrible at explaining things.

I bought the car in January 2020 like Tony mentioned. I doubt the scrapyard ever told the DVLA the cars been scrapped and they never registered the car in their name either. The previous owner (according to the v5) got the car in 2010. Scrapyard had it since approx. June 2019. (Got that from a Donedeal ad where theirs hundreds of plastic containers all stacked on top of my car :laughing )

I have the whole V5 too not just the wee slip you meant to rip out and give to the new owner. Like I said I am certain the scrappers never notified the DVLA about the cars status either. The car being in Ireland isn't that much of a issue either I have plenty of cousins who'd let me use their address to register it in Derry so on the irish side its ok for now. Also letters and tickets etc not getting sent to my address isn't a problem either (this thing wont be on the road for a looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggggg time :crybaby: )

The fact I'm pouring every penny I make into building a garage for this car and any other money into the car itself is making me a tad worried about the whole registration issue. I'm just afraid I send off the V5 to register it in my name and I get a nice letter back saying the British government is looking for a cheque for 5 years of unpaid tax and on top of that want the car too :bye: .

So would that be the case I have to pay any tax due? Or would I be safe enough sending the V5 off to Swansea. I really hope someone might have a idea what to do.

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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

Image

There what the DVLA reg check comes back with for anyone interested.

Only figured out what you meant by the rk now tony :facepalm: so that would mean he's been getting letters asking him to tax the car for the past 5 years :laughing .

Just thought I'd use google earth to see if my MR2 is at the house and....
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(just some help for anyone who might want to try this idea, to get older captures you have to use google maps for some stupid reason)

and no luck as you can see from my helpful arrows their is no MR2 there this capture is from 2011 though, one before this was 2009.


Very much off topic but I looked up my house to see if they've finally updated it and they did!
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Theirs my MR2 under my "garage". Sadly it didnt survive the winter but it did leave a lovely white mark in the paint as a reminder of its honourable service :th: It was the best 20 euro I ever spent lol.
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by TonyleFrog »

If the seller is in the motor trade he won't have been chased for VED (tax) or need to declare SORN.

The DVLA online MOT record ceased in March 2010 - https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
The vehicle moving from GB to NI would explain that though.

At some point you're going to have to bite the bullet and get the RK changed.
The choice you have to make is what date to declare it from (see below).
It's up to you whether you tell porkies about a cousin being the new owner/RK at a different address.
The V5C will then go to them. And so will any other official paperwork as I said previously.

For that reason there's no way I would do this for any car of mine.
It only needs them to be late in telling you/forget altogether and the s**t could hit the fan. YMMV.

You may find this helpful - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration ... d-vehicles
Did the scrapper give you the complete V5C because they knew you were taking the car to the RoI?
If not they haven't followed the correct administrative process when selling you the car.

VED (tax) does not transfer with a change of keeper. You have no liability for any period prior to buying the car. Therefore the most you could be stung for is the last 2 years (from January 2020) plus a late licensing penalty - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ----------
Which assumes you fess up to failing to register it when you should have. Once a new V5C is issued and received whoever is on it as RK should immediately SORN it online - https://www.gov.uk/make-a-sorn
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by carolineasb »

If the car is in Eire, what is the need to change the keeper for NI? It has a UK plate too rather than NI (not sure if you need to change that to NI or can you keep UK plate in NI?) Or do you need to have v5 from DVLA to register in Eire?
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by TonyleFrog »

carolineasb wrote: 06/02/22 10:24 If the car is in Eire, what is the need to change the keeper for NI?
Good question. I have no personal experience to go by for Padraig's specific situation which is somewhat less than straightforward...

My understanding is that he is resident in the RoI. Therefore, when the vehicle crossed the border in his ownership it may be classed as an import. I don't know what the RoI rules are for a personal private vehicle.
carolineasb wrote: 06/02/22 10:24 It has a UK plate too rather than NI (not sure if you need to change that to NI or can you keep UK plate in NI?)
No need to re-register if you are a UK resident - https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk
Just do a change of address with DVLA.
carolineasb wrote: 06/02/22 10:24 Or do you need to have v5 from DVLA to register in Eire?
Yes. See first link above.

There is also the little matter of Brexit which may well add another layer of administrative PITA.

The only person I know in the RoI with an MR2 who might be able to provide some insight is Ray (SlipSlide).
He hasn't posted on here for several years, so I don't know whether a PM would reach him.
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

TonyleFrog wrote: 06/02/22 0:05 The DVLA online MOT record ceased in March 2010 - https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
The vehicle moving from GB to NI would explain that though.
Thats the site I was referencing when I said that one site said 2016 and the other 2010. Thought I imagined it lol
TonyleFrog wrote: 06/02/22 0:05 Did the scrapper give you the complete V5C because they knew you were taking the car to the RoI?
If not they haven't followed the correct administrative process when selling you the car.

Yeah thats one thing I didnt mention the scrapper is based here in Ireland. Just on topic of registering it, am I not able to register it in the UK since I don't have a address there? And is the late fee £55 or will it be higher cause of it being 2 years? Thanks for all the help so far :D
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by jimi »

:confused1: https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ that site stoill works and is current, was the DVLA check a different site ?
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by TonyleFrog »

Padraig 04 wrote: 06/02/22 17:59
TonyleFrog wrote: 06/02/22 0:05 The DVLA online MOT record ceased in March 2010 - https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/
The vehicle moving from GB to NI would explain that though.
Thats the site I was referencing when I said that one site said 2016 and the other 2010. Thought I imagined it lol
Ah, OK. The reason is simple. NI MOT's can't be accessed using the DVLA online facility.
Testing in NI is quite different from the rest of the UK. It's all done at official government centres.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/dr ... st-centres
They are controlled by the DVA at Coleraine. Also, tests are for vehicles over four years old not three.
Separate incompatible systems AFAIK.
Padraig 04 wrote: 06/02/22 17:59
TonyleFrog wrote: 06/02/22 0:05 Did the scrapper give you the complete V5C because they knew you were taking the car to the RoI?
If not they haven't followed the correct administrative process when selling you the car.
Yeah thats one thing I didnt mention the scrapper is based here in Ireland.
Jeez, it gets more convoluted by the hour! By Ireland, you mean the RoI, not NI? Was the previous owner (RK) in NI? If so, I'm not even going to speculate why he/she punted the car across the border or the possible implications. This is way beyond my pay grade... lol
Padraig 04 wrote: 06/02/22 17:59 Just on topic of registering it, am I not able to register it in the UK since I don't have a address there?
Correct, you can't (unless you are willing to lie: for example pretending you live with a cousin in Derry).*
There is no way DVLA Swansea can register a vehicle to an RoI address. It's a different country ffs!

* That's a matter for you. No further comment from me.
For all I know you might get your collar felt by the Gardai if you got found out.
Padraig 04 wrote: 06/02/22 17:59 And is the late fee £55 or will it be higher cause of it being 2 years? Thanks for all the help so far :D
The LLP (Late Licensing Penalty) imposed by DVLA Swansea for a UK registered keeper is £80 (plus any backdated VED (tax) which is owed). I posted a link to the relevant document earlier. I have no idea what the sanction might be in the RoI. Nor do I know if they have an equivalent of SORN.

I can only really help with UK stuff. I'm not even on first base with RoI legislation and regulations.
You need to talk to someone in your own country (or possibly NI: e.g. Ricky2) about cross border issues like this. AIUI Brexit has made a lot of things more difficult. Yours looks like it's one of them.
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Re: How does SORN work

Post by Padraig 04 »

TonyleFrog wrote: 06/02/22 0:05 Jeez, it gets more convoluted by the hour! By Ireland, you mean the RoI, not NI? Was the previous owner (RK) in NI? If so, I'm not even going to speculate why he/she punted the car across the border or the possible implications. This is way beyond my pay grade... lol

Yeah the previous owner was in Northern Ireland. The main thing stopping me from bringing it into Ireland (Registering it in Ireland, its already here physically :laughing )is the VRT to import it from the UK. It's about €2,000 :shocked: and I don't have close to that. That is without a NOx emissions reading though so could be significantly less if I get that tested (charges me highest price for emissions since I have no number).

Should I leave registering the car until I have the money to pay off the fines and also have enough to import it to Ireland?

Dunno what to do :crybaby:
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