Major design flaw/future rust issue.

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PaulWoods
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Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by PaulWoods » 11/02/10 7:26

We discovered this one about 18 months ago and were truly shocked that Toyota had allowed this to happen, I have no pics at the moment but i will grab some to highlight the issue. Now Toyotas aren't especially well known for great rust protection to say the least, but we found something that openly ENCOURAGES it on the Mk3!

On the soft top you will notice where it meets the rear of the door that the top does not seal onto the outside of the cars body, instead there is a gap between hood and body. Now obviously water is going to run off the roof and down through this gap, into the INSIDE of the car. What did Toyota do about it? well they have made a little canvas bag each side of the roof (just under the parcel shelf side flaps) that collect this rainwater, yep an internal rainwater collection drain bag (Mk3 colostomy bags we call them :D )

From these rainwater collectors the water is funnelled into a plastic flap/fitting mounted on the inner wing (directly behind the air vent on the outside, you can remove your sidevent and see it for yourself) , this has a plastic flap on it. Now one well known issue is that this flap gunges up with leaves/dirt that fall into the hood hole,into the colostomys and end up in the flap. Water then backfills until it overflows the colostomys and you end up with cubby boxes full of water.

This we can cope with as it just means the flaps need de-gunging and the water only contacts plastic in the cubbys anyway, no big deal.

HOWEVER! it's what happens to the rainwater that does exit the valve flap on the inner wing that intrigues me. You would think Toyota would have a pipe attached to this to guide it through the inner wing and down to the outside somewhere, like a proper drain hole in the sill etc..... oh no... Toyota are allowing ALL of the rainwater that falls on your hood to be directed straight into the Mk3 sills!!! That's right, at least Mk1's and Mk2's with their already rusty sills are designed to keep water out as best they can, but this Mk3 design truely shocked us.

In 5-10 years time i predict Mk3's are going to be absolutely fubared in the sill areas, it's like three or four times a week taking a watering can out to your car and giving your sills a damn good internal moisturising! Come on Toyota we deserve better than that?

What can we do about it? Well i would remove the sidevent and attach some sort of plastic flexi tube onto the valve-flap and guide that to the outside world somehow, and waxoyl your sills to the hilt.

I will include pics of it when i get a chance.


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MGMgrand
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by MGMgrand » 11/02/10 9:18

There's good engineering and then there's short cuts. Sounds like the latter. Bad Toyota but good call thanks for the advice :th:

Just one question do hardtops cure this ill?
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by iLogik » 11/02/10 9:56

the flaps looked like they came directly out the side and out the wheels arch from what I could see. Im having the whole body swapped over so might get the inner sill wax oiled on that notion.
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by vanilla.coffee » 11/02/10 13:37

Top tip...! :th:
They'll take the internet off us if people keep doing this.

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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by m0jo » 11/02/10 15:31

Top-tip my soft-tops still got a huge gash in it (hoping to replace it this year) and with the hard-top this problem doesn't exist.

Still makes you wonder what toyota were thinking.


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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by JohnnyC » 11/02/10 16:06

I went from a gen6 (1994-1999) to a gen7 (1999+) Celica.

And some of the shortcuts they made were terrible. I didn't know about mechanics and stuff back then, so this was all purely cosmetic stuff inside - but if they're penny pincing there where their customers can see, makes you wonder what's going on elsewhere on the car :no:
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by Chris69 » 11/02/10 18:46

quick thought on this, perhaps the sills were designed to fill with water to stop the rust. rust only forms when theres water and oxygen present.
Still a bad design tho and well done for spotting it.


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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by PaulWoods » 11/02/10 19:08

No i very much doubt that mate, i for one think pouring water into your sill sections is a recipe for disaster, makes me wince at the thought of it, so every roadster out there is a tinworm timebomb waiting to go off as far as i'm concerned.... i just think they were very lazy there and just thought yeah just let the water drain into the sills, it will be fine, perhaps during this recent bout of recalls on the prius we should be lobbying them to sort this future issue out? Although they would probably draw the line if i asked them to fix my rotten Mk1 arches on a recall :)
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by JohnnyC » 11/02/10 21:19

PaulWoods wrote:No i very much doubt that mate, i for one think pouring water into your sill sections is a recipe for disaster, makes me wince at the thought of it, so every roadster out there is a tinworm timebomb waiting to go off as far as i'm concerned....
It's a none issue really, as I heard those 1ZZ-FE's don't last long enough for the cars shell to rust :no:
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by iLogik » 11/02/10 21:23

JohnnyC wrote:
PaulWoods wrote:No i very much doubt that mate, i for one think pouring water into your sill sections is a recipe for disaster, makes me wince at the thought of it, so every roadster out there is a tinworm timebomb waiting to go off as far as i'm concerned....
It's a none issue really, as I heard those 1ZZ-FE's don't last long enough for the cars shell to rust :no:
total guff, if looked after the 1zz is fine, its the pre cats and retarded owners using crap oil/lack of service.
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by FGRob » 12/02/10 5:19

PaulWoods wrote:No i very much doubt that mate, i for one think pouring water into your sill sections is a recipe for disaster, makes me wince at the thought of it, so every roadster out there is a tinworm timebomb waiting to go off as far as i'm concerned.... i just think they were very lazy there and just thought yeah just let the water drain into the sills, it will be fine, perhaps during this recent bout of recalls on the prius we should be lobbying them to sort this future issue out? Although they would probably draw the line if i asked them to fix my rotten Mk1 arches on a recall :)
So tell me how are they supposed to get the E coat out if there's no drain holes, remember this is a full body emersion and is a total body protection system, if you think this is bad do some work on a Spitfire or MG then you will realise just how good the coating is.

The biggest problem with the MK3 is the previous owners who didn't really give "censored" and treated the car as a normal car - not taking care of the drainage which allows build-up and water retention.

The MRS can suffer more as they have not got all the plastic protection, also cars which had repairs can also suffer if the repair was not of a suitable quality. :shocked:

I'd be more worried about the rear cross member, that does crack and rust in under 10 years if not protected. A good nylon coating / waxoyling will sort that out if caught earlier enough :)

The easy protection is not to run it in the rain or over winter :whistling:

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PaulWoods
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by PaulWoods » 12/02/10 7:13

I'd be more worried about the rear cross member, that does crack and rust in under 10 years if not protected. A good nylon coating / waxoyling will sort that out if caught earlier enough
Totally agree with how easily the rear crossmember rusts, i've welded up loads of them! However it is less of a worry than this filling your sills up with water problem because it is very easily unbolted and replaced with another subframe.

If i owned another Mk3 now i would be fitting my own water pipe from the inner wing vent to the bottom of the sill somewhere.

Oh and i know all about spitfires and MG rust, i have owned a midget before and currently got a Mk5 spitty on the drive, i chase the rot on that thing around the car.
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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by m0jo » 12/02/10 8:53

JohnnyC wrote:
PaulWoods wrote:No i very much doubt that mate, i for one think pouring water into your sill sections is a recipe for disaster, makes me wince at the thought of it, so every roadster out there is a tinworm timebomb waiting to go off as far as i'm concerned....
It's a none issue really, as I heard those 1ZZ-FE's don't last long enough for the cars shell to rust :no:
:laughing woooo you b1tch lol :laughing

that me me chuckle, true tho the 1zz does seem to be riddled with people looking for replacement engines

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Re: Major design flaw/future rust issue.

Post by iLogik » 12/02/10 9:01

if looked after the 1zz engine is fine, as rob says a lot of previous owners bought them and treated them as a normal car.

I had a turbo, dragged it, went out on track with it, and it still in great condition not burning oil and running 100%, owned the car a year covered around 8k currently on 66k. The pre cats and crap oil clogging the oilways on the 1zz cause issues. Other than that a boosted 1zz will see most things off the road with little worry of it popping.

Rob can vouch for this too, his engine is far from standard, his owned the car circa 5 years if I remember rightly.
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