I've just bought a bosch S4 type 044 battery ( Euro car parts recommended) and I'm getting the same result as my previous battery except all the lights and other electrical bits actually stay on for more than 3 minutes.
I go to start it and the lights dim ever so slightly and the starter relay clicks rapidly, then eventually slows up, then just one click every time I turn the key.
Usually, this would indicate a dying battery (that I'm aware of) and so bought the replacement today. I have noticed before I the car went SoRN the earth wire that bonds the inlet manifold to the strut/body (small earth cable near drivers side) had melted at the black connector which joins the cable together. I've stripped this back and soldered it together, then heat shrink wrapped it. (have got a picture)
I've checked most if not all the earths in the engine compartment to make sure there's >10v's from the B+ terminal to random places and all return >10v's.
Any reason why this would have started to melt and why the car just rapidly clicks with a new battery? I have checked the starter relay with a multimeter and a car battery to make sure the contacts are healthy, passed without any issues.
Thanks!
No start unless no AFM *FIXED*- Rev 2 Turbo
Forum rules
Many subjects will have been discussed before. Please try the search function before starting a new thread.
Check in the Know Your 2 as the information you need may already be there.
Important ! - Please make your topic title as descriptive as possible . titles with just "help" generally dont get as many answers as a title that points to the problem
Many subjects will have been discussed before. Please try the search function before starting a new thread.
Check in the Know Your 2 as the information you need may already be there.
Important ! - Please make your topic title as descriptive as possible . titles with just "help" generally dont get as many answers as a title that points to the problem
-
Shaleskin
Topic author
No start unless no AFM *FIXED*- Rev 2 Turbo
Last edited by Shaleskin on 06/01/14 19:00, edited 4 times in total.
-
MRturboTom
- Posts: 2346
- Joined: 23/08/08 23:44
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 6
- MR2's Owned: 9
- Gender: Male
- Location: Preston, Lancashire
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
i'd remove the starter motor and bench test it
'94 Mk2 Rev 3 GT-S 295 fwhp @1.2 bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
-
MR2DI4
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 20/04/11 23:18
- Current Model: None
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 23
- MR2's Owned: 1
- Real Name: 2023 i30N Hatch 6MT
- Gender: Male
- Location: Tauranga >>> New Zealand
- Been thanked: 1 time
- Contact:
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
I would say you have earth problems.
All the straps need to be clean and have low resistance. Check that the battery terminals are very clean and are back to the metal.
Its common on engine transplants that people do not put the earthing wires back properly or just leave them off. When things go really bad the throttle cable outer can even get used as an earth and things melt.
Melting cable indicate high resistance contacts or other missing earth cables from the engine to the chassis.
The starter motor draws like 60-80Amps so all the electrical conections need to be in top shape.
Join a couple of jumper leads together and put one on the negative of the battery and the other on the starter motor and see if that eliminates the problem.
Use a multimeter and measure the resistance from the engine to the chassis. Just because an earth strap is connected doesn't mean it has a low resistance contact.
All the straps need to be clean and have low resistance. Check that the battery terminals are very clean and are back to the metal.
Its common on engine transplants that people do not put the earthing wires back properly or just leave them off. When things go really bad the throttle cable outer can even get used as an earth and things melt.
Melting cable indicate high resistance contacts or other missing earth cables from the engine to the chassis.
The starter motor draws like 60-80Amps so all the electrical conections need to be in top shape.
Join a couple of jumper leads together and put one on the negative of the battery and the other on the starter motor and see if that eliminates the problem.
Use a multimeter and measure the resistance from the engine to the chassis. Just because an earth strap is connected doesn't mean it has a low resistance contact.
-
fingers99
Topic author
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
+1
The single jumper lead trick (assuming it works) is a sure and certain test of a bad earth.
You can then test the earth leads with an ohmeter. Resistance should be extremely low -- barely more than when you put the probes on the multimeter together. Any factors will have a range of earth straps, one of which will be an appropriate length, and silicone grease. After you've scratched back the metal to shiny bright stuff, apply a little silicone grease to it and the terminals, bolt back up tight. Do the same to the battery terminals. In extremis you can use vaseline, but silicone grease is the better choice.
If all fails, bench test the starter motor.
The single jumper lead trick (assuming it works) is a sure and certain test of a bad earth.
You can then test the earth leads with an ohmeter. Resistance should be extremely low -- barely more than when you put the probes on the multimeter together. Any factors will have a range of earth straps, one of which will be an appropriate length, and silicone grease. After you've scratched back the metal to shiny bright stuff, apply a little silicone grease to it and the terminals, bolt back up tight. Do the same to the battery terminals. In extremis you can use vaseline, but silicone grease is the better choice.
If all fails, bench test the starter motor.
-
Chris_D
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 12/05/13 21:40
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 1
- MR2's Owned: 1
- Gender: Male
- Location: Bournemouth
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
There should be a thick earth cable (10mm dia ish) from the engine - on an mr2 I'm not sure if this runs back to the battery of if it goes to the body, but it should be there.
There is normally a thinner earth cable from engine (usually alternator mount I think) back to the body - sounds like this is the one that melted. It is not designed to take full starter motor current - hence why it melted. This indicates that the other cable has failed or is not present.
There is normally a thinner earth cable from engine (usually alternator mount I think) back to the body - sounds like this is the one that melted. It is not designed to take full starter motor current - hence why it melted. This indicates that the other cable has failed or is not present.
-
Shaleskin
Topic author
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
An update, you that suggested earth lead were correct!
I returned that battery and got a Bosch S4 type 005, swapped it in and tried to start to find the same issue. I thought it's got to be a dodgy earth somewhere!
Found the large earth strap that goes from transmission - gearbox mount/body and took it out, sanded down the contacts and paint on body and reconnected. Car now turns over nicely! BUT! It now won't actually start
It turns over and pops every now and then starts to sound like it's about to start and then just goes back to turning over by the starter motor.
It does smell strong of fuel so I'm going to assume it's ignition side that's now letting me down. Is there a way to quickly de-flood this engine and I'm going to sand down the rest of the earths in the engine bay as I feel they need some looking at.
Thanks!
I returned that battery and got a Bosch S4 type 005, swapped it in and tried to start to find the same issue. I thought it's got to be a dodgy earth somewhere!
Found the large earth strap that goes from transmission - gearbox mount/body and took it out, sanded down the contacts and paint on body and reconnected. Car now turns over nicely! BUT! It now won't actually start
It turns over and pops every now and then starts to sound like it's about to start and then just goes back to turning over by the starter motor. It does smell strong of fuel so I'm going to assume it's ignition side that's now letting me down. Is there a way to quickly de-flood this engine and I'm going to sand down the rest of the earths in the engine bay as I feel they need some looking at.
Thanks!
-
MRturboTom
- Posts: 2346
- Joined: 23/08/08 23:44
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 6
- MR2's Owned: 9
- Gender: Male
- Location: Preston, Lancashire
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
Remove plugs and let them air dry.
Check for a good spark whilst out.
If you have fuel and a good spark then I'd think its a timing issue but it shouldn't change massively unless been touched so it'd be a concern if it was timing.
Could be a poor earth to the ignition side.
When my gearbox earth was disconnected by accident mine wouldn't crank but would turn all the fans on when trying to crank.
Which is a default action for an open circuit.
Check for a good spark whilst out.
If you have fuel and a good spark then I'd think its a timing issue but it shouldn't change massively unless been touched so it'd be a concern if it was timing.
Could be a poor earth to the ignition side.
When my gearbox earth was disconnected by accident mine wouldn't crank but would turn all the fans on when trying to crank.
Which is a default action for an open circuit.
'94 Mk2 Rev 3 GT-S 295 fwhp @1.2 bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
-
Chris_D
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 12/05/13 21:40
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 1
- MR2's Owned: 1
- Gender: Male
- Location: Bournemouth
Re: Starter Relay clicking madly - Rev 2 Turbo
The ECU earths all connect via a single connection on the underside of the inlet manifold. Check this is clean & tight.
As above, take the plugs out & let them dry. It can also be helpful to heat up the plug tips in a gas flame before refitting the plugs then try to start.
Worth having a look at this too:
http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/198/15828 ... 7#p1666033
As above, take the plugs out & let them dry. It can also be helpful to heat up the plug tips in a gas flame before refitting the plugs then try to start.
Worth having a look at this too:
http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/198/15828 ... 7#p1666033
-
Shaleskin
Topic author
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Ok I've cleaned the earth underneath the manifold. I've removed all 4 spark plugs which reeked of fuel and are just black tips. Left them to dry for about an hour then hooked up all 4 to the HT leads and left them earth on the rocker cover.
All 4 gave bright blue sparks when it was turning over. It'll now start but struggle to idle for more than 3/5 seconds but have to have my foot on clutch and WOT and it'll pop, bang and the usual not running right noises until it just dies off. If I remove either foot slowly then it just dies.
I did swap over the distributer cap and rotor with another 2nd hand one I had laying about but the same result, so without ripping the coil pack out I'm honestly stumped!
All 4 gave bright blue sparks when it was turning over. It'll now start but struggle to idle for more than 3/5 seconds but have to have my foot on clutch and WOT and it'll pop, bang and the usual not running right noises until it just dies off. If I remove either foot slowly then it just dies.
I did swap over the distributer cap and rotor with another 2nd hand one I had laying about but the same result, so without ripping the coil pack out I'm honestly stumped!
-
Howlin_Mad
- Posts: 6816
- Joined: 14/09/06 1:00
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 10
- MR2's Owned: 3
- Real Name: Yes I have one ta.
- Gender: Male
- Location: Wolverhampton
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Have you checked the AFM?
HM
HM
MGB GT For Sale// JDM Rev3 3VZ-FE V6
-
Shaleskin
Topic author
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Yeah, It had 2 codes; Temp sensor open/short circuit and air flow meter signal open or short circuit. I've taken it apart and given it a clean and tested against the BGB and the results are within spec after the clean up.Howlin_Mad wrote:Have you checked the AFM?
HM
I don't unfortunately have another way to test AFM since I don't have a spare one to swap over.
-
Howlin_Mad
- Posts: 6816
- Joined: 14/09/06 1:00
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 10
- MR2's Owned: 3
- Real Name: Yes I have one ta.
- Gender: Male
- Location: Wolverhampton
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Only reason I asked is when we did a Rev 2 turbo swap the AFM was sticky as hell and the connector was goosed. It had the same symptoms as yours.Shaleskin wrote:Yeah, It had 2 codes; Temp sensor open/short circuit and air flow meter signal open or short circuit. I've taken it apart and given it a clean and tested against the BGB and the results are within spec after the clean up.Howlin_Mad wrote:Have you checked the AFM?
HM
I don't unfortunately have another way to test AFM since I don't have a spare one to swap over.
HM
MGB GT For Sale// JDM Rev3 3VZ-FE V6
-
MRturboTom
- Posts: 2346
- Joined: 23/08/08 23:44
- Years of MR2 Ownership: 6
- MR2's Owned: 9
- Gender: Male
- Location: Preston, Lancashire
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Sounds like an afm issue to me whether it's the afm itself or an air leak between the afm and throttle body
'94 Mk2 Rev 3 GT-S 295 fwhp @1.2 bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
'93 Mk2 Rev 2 GT-S 296 fwbhp @ 0.9bar
-
Shaleskin
Topic author
Re: Struggling to stay alive - Rev 2 Turbo
Annoying as it gave back decent results and the clip feels solid and clicks into place.
It probably doesn't effect it but I've put on a cone filter and now the AFM housing sits at an 45* angle facing down towards the opening hole for the original intake oppose to being (I guess) balanced straight?
I did notice actually a small 2 pin white plug that comes out of the bulk wiring towards the ECU that isn't plugged to anything. I don't know if I've pulled it out without knowing or what but I will get an image of it before it get's too dark and hopefully someone will know where it goes!
4 photo's in an album here!
It probably doesn't effect it but I've put on a cone filter and now the AFM housing sits at an 45* angle facing down towards the opening hole for the original intake oppose to being (I guess) balanced straight?
I did notice actually a small 2 pin white plug that comes out of the bulk wiring towards the ECU that isn't plugged to anything. I don't know if I've pulled it out without knowing or what but I will get an image of it before it get's too dark and hopefully someone will know where it goes!
4 photo's in an album here!
