Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

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Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by Woody928 »

Good evening all, I'm aware that my car is probably in need of some fresh suspension at some point in the near future and as such am considering the replacement options. The car is used as a toy, albeit that it is my only car, I have only covered around 4000 miles or so in the last year (likely the same annual mileage going forward). Comfort would be nice but is not an absolute must,however I don't want to be bouncing around. Having only owned MR2's I am used to firm suspension. The car is used as a fast road car, doing some long distance trips and very occasional track use.

What are my options? How do they compare? What do they cost? Whats the difference between getting Coilovers or Shocks and lowering springs bearing in mind the cars use?

I appreciate its a lot to ask at once, but I'm trying to get a feel for my options.... :)


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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by TonyleFrog »

Woody928 wrote:The car is used as a toy, albeit that it is my only car, I have only covered around 4000 miles or so in the last year (likely the same annual mileage going forward)....The car is used as a fast road car, doing some long distance trips and very occasional track use.

What are my options? How do they compare? What do they cost? Whats the difference between getting Coilovers or Shocks and lowering springs bearing in mind the cars use?
The use of lowering springs on a shock which was not designed to use them in the first place inevitably means you are compromising the latter's performance. The piston stroke is restricted below it's designed operating range which, without changes to the valving, means impaired operation. You are very likely to hit the bump stops on poorly surfaced roads. My original red Rev 3 tubby had had -40mm springs (make unknown) fitted to the stock black Bilsteins by the previous owner. The result in short order was totally knackered shocks. The ride comfort was appalling and the car skittered on bumpy B roads. I got shot of them and replaced them with BC coilovers which are now on my Rev 4.

T2 is/has always been set up specifically for the purposes you mention above. The KW Variant 3s which had been fitted around 9 years ago were showing their age and one suffered a fractured spring last autumn when I failed to avoid a horrendous pothole on the apex of a bend. KWs are an excellent product (they should be at £1350 a set!) but that was a bit steep for my blood so I replaced them with BCs. The KWs are designed to be used with the stock top mounts, so are not camber adjustable unless you buy separate pillowball ones which will put a further dent in the budget!

The big advantage with coilovers - BCs or HSDs - is that you get adjustable front top mounts included in the price, plus the design means the spring length stays constant irrespective of the ride height. The latter is easily changed should you desire it.

HM had problems with his BCs. I don't know the cause nor can I speculate on what it might be. All I can say is that AFAIK shinny and I were the earliest users of them on here (over 5 years ago - well before HM) and mine have performed faultlessly on two different cars in that time.

If you don't want to go down that route, you could use yellow B6 Bilsteins (non rebuildable) or Koni/Spax struts (which are, with new inserts) but the point about lowering springs is still valid re non-rebuildable shocks. With inserts you should be able to get ones which have been designed for use with shorter than stock springs.

The mistake that so many people make is failing to understand that a car's suspension should be treated as a single dynamic unit: the component parts must all work in harmony. Mess with just one in isolation and you risk upsetting the overall balance.
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by peteV6R5 »

Agree with all Tony said above.

I have used APEX 30mm lowering springs - really pleased on the handling upgrade and hardly any loss in comfort.
I then brought a cheap set of coilovers - bad choice for the heavy V6 as they were none adjustable like a BC etc
Replaced them again with brand new stock tubby suspension and APEX - again happy.
Then I had some spare cash so brought some BC coilovers and then realised I should have just brought them in the 1st place.
Just transformed the car especially after 4 wheel geo set up.

Thats my suspension history in a nut shell which probably cost me £300 more than it should have done.
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by Woody928 »

Thank you for the fast responses gents. Tony your detailed response is particularly helpful :th:

I forgot to add whats the life expectancy of Coilovers vs Shocks & springs? as I seem to remember being told coilovers are knackered albeit rebuild-able after 30k ish whereas shocks are more like 100k ish?!

Sounds like BC coilovers are the way to go given the cost and my needs, which brings me onto my next questions. I believe I am right in saying that there are several variants to choose from, for the websites I have visited? which ones would you recommend? and how much can I expect to pay? (links would be helpful)

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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by MRturboTom »

If you're getting coilovers buy meisterR.

But I'd recommend either bilstein b6 or Koni shocks and good springs like eibach.

Struts are more fit and forget where as coilovers need keeping on top of and don't have the life of regular dampers
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by vinp182 »

I agree with Tom

Yellow billies or Koni's with decent springs, fit and forget :th:
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by Woody928 »

Thanks for voicing your opinions Tom & Vinny. :th:

I'm keener on the idea of fit and forget if I'm honest rather than being constantly on top of the suspension all of the time. If you go down the path of struts and springs, Bilstein b6's seem very popular but is there a difference between Koni's and them?

Also what springs would you recommend with them? eibach has been mentioned by you and several others, and where would you get them from? Also is Tony's point about using the wrong level springs with these shocks still valid in terms of travel and life expectancy?

I'm also assuming topmounts will be required? so again what would you recommend and where can I get them from?

Finally I take it struts and springs is the more expensive option when you add up all of the pieces?

Sorry for all of the questions but I'm very new to this area of things! :blush:
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by MRturboTom »

Eibach is trd, but they do proline and sportline if I remember correctly, one is lower than the other i think.

Bilstein are non adjustable and full strut legs, where as Koni are adjustable and inserts, I like adjustable dampers personally.
I believe you can get trd topmounts, fensport i think or mr2 ben maybe.
Both the above mentioned dampers are suited to a shorter travel spring.
More initial outlay but a better investment.
Pillow ball topmounts are available i believe as another option.

Having a damper for twenty years at a certain ride height then some lower stiffer springs thrown on kills them. From new is very different.

I'd personally stick to a good branded spring like eibach or space, teins are more stance. Apex, jamex, piper are amongst a few of the cheap brands I'd avoid
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by MRturboTom »

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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by MRturboTom »

Lots of damper options also.

In kit form too

http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/ ... a/mr2.html

I'd buy powerflex bump stops too
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by TonyleFrog »

MRturboTom wrote:Eibach is trd, but they do proline and sportline if I remember correctly, one is lower than the other i think.

Bilstein are non adjustable and full strut legs, where as Koni are adjustable and inserts, I like adjustable dampers personally.
I believe you can get trd topmounts, fensport i think or mr2 ben maybe.
Both the above mentioned dampers are suited to a shorter travel spring.
More initial outlay but a better investment.
Pillow ball topmounts are available i believe as another option.

Having a damper for twenty years at a certain ride height then some lower stiffer springs thrown on kills them. From new is very different.

I'd personally stick to a good branded spring like eibach or space, teins are more stance. Apex, jamex, piper are amongst a few of the cheap brands I'd avoid
@ Woody - if coilovers are not your thing I would go for Konis. :th:

They have been around for a long time. I was using their shocks nearly 50 years ago! :blink: Definitely the must have option back then. Also using pillowball front top mounts will allow camber adjustment. A definite plus imo.

I would also recommend dcperformance. I got my original set of BCs from them. There was a design issue with the drop link attachment bracket. Replaced with the upgraded version foc and zero hassle. Excellent customer service.
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by dawesy »

+1. I used Koni's on the rolla and they are very good. Before buying though make sure you have the right shocks on now. You need to bs able to strip them to get the Koni inserts in. The correct stock type have a large nut at the top of the strut case. If you haven't got this then factor in buying a set of struts to strip.
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by MRturboTom »

dawesy wrote:+1. I used Koni's on the rolla and they are very good. Before buying though make sure you have the right shocks on now. You need to bs able to strip them to get the Koni inserts in. The correct stock type have a large nut at the top of the strut case. If you haven't got this then factor in buying a set of struts to strip.
Black bilstein aren't rebuildable
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Re: Suspension replacement options - Rev3 Tubby

Post by Woody928 »

Thank you for the replies,and thank you for the links Tom!

I take it given that Black Bilstein's aren't rebuildable, I should be looking at one of Koni's kits like the one in the link below? As I have nothing to put the inserts in....
http://www.dcperformance.co.uk/cheap/25 ... -8841.html

Then buy more appropriate springs and topmounts to go with. For some reason I cannot find eibach springs for the mk2 anywhere, are they still produced?

Also can someone tell me the difference between a top mount and a pillowball top mount? and which one is better?

Even though they are more maintenance I can see the appeal of coilovers being cheaper and one piece to just drop in place. Then by contrast I like the idea of fit and forget with longevity. Decisions, decisions.... :confused1: I may pick some peoples brains at this upcoming Cotsworlds meet, try and get more pf a feel for things.
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