Let's not beat around the bushes!

[JDog97]

Ok guys I would love your help with this!

Everything was fine until...I was on an Edinburgh to Manchester return trip and I started having handling problems with the back swaying esp at +60mph, some free play and i checked to find uneven rear tyre wear. I took it to a garage who said the anti-roll bars were loose and that the bushes and drop links probably need replaced. Everything I've searched since confirms this except nothing mentions the anti-roll bars (could their looseness be down to worn bushes?)

My Questions are:

1. Is this a correct assessment?
2. What bushes need replaced? I thought I'd do all of them and there are complete kits but how easy is it to do it myself? I've never done it before!
3. I've read a recent helpful thread on drop links but can I fit them myself too?
BTW - I've got good ramps so access underneath is fine but I'm a novice so don't want to screw it up or get stuck halfway through!
4. Am I best just booking it into my garage and taking the labour hit? The problem I have with this is that I want to fit my own parts - not his!

[MR2Jay]

OK, sounds almost right. The anti roll bar is a solid bar the is bolted to the subframe via 2 bushes in a clamp. I would be surprised if the arb needs replacing as well. I would suggest your mechanic is confusing the arb (of which there is only one) with the trailing arms.

I have experienced the same sensation you are describing. This was traced to a broken captive nut in the subframe causing one of the trailing arms to not sit tight. Was a scary sensation..... It is certainly worth looking at the bolt where it joins the subframe and making sure they are tight. If they just spin, then you need a new subframe (you may be able to cut the trailing arms out) which will set you back about £50 from a breaker.

OK, to answer your questions.

1. Sounds about right (see above)
2. I would begin with replacing the arb bushes first as they are the easiest to do. The trailing arm bushes will be your sticking point unless you can get access to a press.
3. Drop links aren't a difficult job to do but be prepared for rounded out Allen key locking points on each bolt. Many a time I have had to cut these out
4. Other than replacing the trailing arm bushes, the rest is well within the reach of a home mechanic.

I would suggest taking it to be aligned once the work is done though, just to make sure everything is still true

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[MR2Jay]

Oh, and the best symptom of drop link failure is a knocking over bumps

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[JDog97]

Thanks Jay!

Scary sensation...The first i became aware of it i was doing over 70 on a sodden motorway at night when the rear suddenly decided to change lanes on its own! Certainly woke me up!

That makes more sense re the arb and trailing arms. I'm going to get under it tomorrow if the weather lets me. Any visual signs to look for on the bushes?

Is there somewhere on this site with downloadable mechanical diagrams? I'm sure I saw one by shinny.

Yep, laser alignment is a great idea. Thanks

[MR2Jay]

The only thing you can look for is play really. Very tricky to do though as you have to remember that the suspension on full load behaves very differently to when it is up in the air Get a really strong, solid flat head screwdriver and try and lever each joint. If there is play, you have found your culprit

Can't post up links to the BGB from my phone (currently on a train back from London) but I am sure someone will be able to help shortly....

My money is on the bolt through the trailing arm into the subframe or the bush at the same point though

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[JDog97]

I will be putting the car up on low clearance synthetic ramps so the load might not be too different? You'll know better than me though! Great ramps btw!

I'll let you know if your right...

Thanks

[MRturboTom]

I've driven the mr2 without the arb connectef and felt stable still, the srb won't really effect tyre wear.

I'd be double checking everything, replace the arb bushes and haveva 4 wheel alignment.
Had the rear lower arm to sub frame bolt loose before and everything felt fine on the ramp and a garage missed it

[fingers99]

I think you can rule out the ARB -- it doesn't provide any kind of lateral support (and I can't think of a car on which it has post the early 1960s? Lotus?). That your garage suggests that the ARB could be the cause is rather worrying.





From the Big Green Book (Toyota Factory Manual).

Every bush except those on the tie rod can be purchased in polyurethane. Every bush can either be removed or burnt out -- no need for press tools either for removal or replacement.

The job is DIYable. Hardest bit I found was to remove the big nut on the end of the strut rod: next time I do it I'll use the old nut with slots cut in it to clean up the (invariably rusty) thread.

But I'd consider as further possible culprits wheel bearings, the bottom pair of strut bolts and the ball joints.

Really, the only way to determine the culprits are to do all the standard tests for ball joints and wheel bearings and then get in there with a pry bar. First with the car on stands, second with the car on ramps.

[JDog97]

Hey, thanks guys. It's fascinating learning this stuff! I'm thinking about doing a mechanic night class because its so much fun. I just wish I could learn practically with one of you experts. If anyone's in my area I'd love it!

Where can I get the diagrams from the BGB?

Fingers99: what are the standard tests for ball joints and wheel bearings?

[Chris_D]

I don't see how the ARB would cause the back end to go side to side.

From the decription it sounds like one of the bottom arms at the back. Could be loose bolt or failed bush. This would allow one of the back wheels to change direction at random, also causing the uneven tyre wear.

[Howlin_Mad]

I don't see how the ARB would cause the back end to go side to side.

From the decription it sounds like one of the bottom arms at the back. Could be loose bolt or failed bush. This would allow one of the back wheels to change direction at random, also causing the uneven tyre wear.

+1

I had a trailing arm bush fail on the V6 and it was like driving a posessed car!

HM

[fingers99]

Where can I get the diagrams from the BGB?

Just download it -- here.

Fingers99: what are the standard tests for ball joints and wheel bearings?

Spin the wheel, listen for any rumbling noise (rather than swish from the brake pads) try pulling on tyre at 3 o clock and 9 o clock, and so on. BGB gives other tests for the ball joints, but the rear ones are cheap.

[JDog97]

Where can I get the diagrams from the BGB?

Just download it -- here.

Fingers99: what are the standard tests for ball joints and wheel bearings?

Spin the wheel, listen for any rumbling noise (rather than swish from the brake pads) try pulling on tyre at 3 o clock and 9 o clock, and so on. BGB gives other tests for the ball joints, but the rear ones are cheap.

Brilliant! Thanks v much fingers99

[JDog97]

Right guys, I managed to get under the car and check things out. Here's a pic for those of you who understand how the load affects things. I'd like to understand it myself so is the car ramped up like this equal to full load?

Anyway, I found significant play in the bushes at the wheel ends of BOTH the trailing arms. I can rock them from side to side with just my hands! Judging from all the info and everyone's responses these bushes need replaced, but just to clarify - I take it that they should be rock solid and I shouldn't be able to create any movement in them at all?

I didn't find anything else of any note. The drop links look decent and I'm not aware of any knocking over bumps so fingers crossed that's it! Plus I also now know the difference between the arb and the trailing arms!!!